Listen to the full episode, including this interview, on Short Cuts BBC Radio 4 here. Transcript edited by Seta Morton
Krishna Washburn
[Birds chirp in the background]
I love to go to dance performances, I love to go to dance performances. But if you go to, say, a performance of Alvin Ailey—like you know—the biggest, best dance company in the world and you have like an okay seat, you’re not close enough to feel the air resistance when the dancers move. They give you the little headset…[Moody, melodic, digital music begins to play]…and it’s like, I can hear the other people sitting next to me, like crying. Just like [gasp] with joy and emotion and I’m listening to: “Two dancers emerge stage left, proceed to the right front diagonal, and then turn around.” Why don’t I get to find out why they’re crying and gasping with joy? [Moody, melodic, digital music ends] Hi, I’m Krishna Washburn. I am a blind professional dancer. There’s not a lot of people who can say that about themselves. I did not know any other blind or visually impaired dancers. And then I met iele.
iele paloumpis
My name is iele paloumpis. [Curious xylophone music begins to play] I am a dance artist and a choreographer. The type of vision that I have was caused by an injury that resulted in severe double vision and it gets exacerbated with movement.Meeting Krishna, who was the first other visually-impaired dance artist that I had had the pleasure of meeting, I felt like, well we should be making dances for ourselves. [Curious xylophone music ends]. It was very important to me that the dancers had agency at choosing who they felt could best describe them.
Krishna Washburn
[Birds chirp in the background]
When iele proposed that we invite audio describers, I’m like, I know who I want to be my personal audio describer.
Alejandra Ospina
The opposite arm extends forward towards the birds in their cage. [Atmospheric, rhythmic, drone music begins to play with the sound of birds chirping]
And you roll all the way down and your braid slaps on the floor. The arm reaching the floor. Did you know? Did you know that as you support your body on your hands, and your braid slaps the floor, and you stand on one straight leg, and your leg extends straight back and up towards the ceiling, that your pants match the color of your fingernails?
Krishna Washburn
[Big gasp] Really?
Alejandra Ospina
They do. Not exactly. They’re very complimentary.
Krishna Washburn
I got lucky.
Alejandra Ospina
I thought it might have been intentional, but it’s not.
Krishna Washburn
That’s so cool.
Alejandra Ospina
And you’re standing on one leg, and you’re pointing your toe in your back, almost like an offering.
[Atmospheric, rhythmic, drone music ends]
Krishna Washburn
[Birds chirp in the background]
I trusted Alejandra to describe me in a way that would be fun for me. I wanted us to include emotional content because I want those mirror neurons to turn on.
iele paloumpis
[Atmospheric music begins to play]
We started to have a practice so that the dancers could while moving could self-describe, so that our audio describers could start to know and understand what was important to us as we were moving. For Seta and I, we would try it where she would describe what she would perceive from looking at my body as it was moving and then I would describe the internal experience of what the movement felt like, or maybe what I was thinking about, as I was moving to kind of give like an inside glimpse.
(iele and Seta’s speech overlaps, they speak almost simultaneously)
iele paloumpis
[Sound of an exhale] I’m noticing that I’m holding my breath…
Seta Morton
Now sort of rocking the body forward and back until they sit back.
iele paloumpis
I’m trying to release…where I am… [The swishing sound of friction between body movements and clothing]
Seta Morton
And I’m following your movements, with my own body, so I can kind of feel what I’m describing…
iele paloumpis
[Vocalizing sounds of release and trembling exhales]
Seta Morton
[With a trembling voice]
Shaking my belly, shaking…
iele paloumpis
[Vocalizing sounds of release and trembling exhales]
Sort of trying to land…where I am.
Seta Morton
[With a trembling voice]
The shoulders—letting them quickly fall.
iele paloumpis
This led to an interesting doubling of our description.
iele paloumpis
[Vocalizing sounds of release and trembling exhales]
Seta Morton
Shaking it out.
iele paloumpis
That kind of give this complexity of information that felt like a really strong representation of my double vision.
iele paloumpis
[Vocalizing continues and changes]
iele paloumpis
A release, it’s sort of an energetic tension of stretching my fingers–
Seta Morton
Gaze lifted, fingers outstretched…
iele paloumpis
Intense reaching of fingertips and toes–
Seta Morton
Fingers wave in and out of fists, clenched.
[Atmospheric music ends]
Krishna Washburn
As I start to move a little smaller and a little faster, she has to ask me what I’m doing.
Alejandra Ospina
The rest of her legs rotate and bring her up, and I never quite know how to describe that movement.
[A light, rhythmic, glittery beat begins]
Krishna Washburn
Do you want me to do it again? I’ll do it again.
Alejandra Ospina
I do. Tell me, tell me about it again.
Krishna Washburn
I bring the arm and leg together. I collect energy on that whole right side of my body.
Krishna Washburn
But then after a while, it becomes more of like, a dialogue between us. She’ll describe something, I’ll describe something…
Krishna Washburn
I’m on the tip of one toe…
Alejandra Ospina
Look at you on the tip of one toe!
Krishna Washburn
And it becomes, “oh Krishna, what ya doing?” “I’m doing like a little bent leg chaine turn, and I’m coming back around your wheelchair.”
Krishna Washburn
You know a lot of people don’t think it’s possible for me to learn this kind of thing
Alejandra Ospina
[chuckling laugh]
Krishna Washburn
but I do it anyway.
Alejandra Ospina
Gracefully coming to the front, elbows bending.
Krishna Washburn
It reveals that I’m not just a dancer, and she’s not just an audio describer—that we’re actually very, very, close friends. And that these roles we impose on ourselves, you know, like, they go away. [The light glittery beat ends and the birds begin chirping again] Some choreographers, they don’t even want audio description for anybody because they’re like, “oh, what words could capture my great artistry?”
iele paloumpis
[Vocalizing a low, long, moaning]
Seta Morton
And the arm pulls the body forward as it carves the space and drags over the floor.
[Static drone music begins]
iele paloumpis
Krishna and I sort of joke about this, but it also in all seriousness, there’s like a real sense of “FOMO,” the fear of missing out because there’s not a lot of quality description out there for us. But what I like to sort of remind myself is that there’s all kinds of stuff that sighted people will miss because of their perspective. What is it that you’re focusing in on? What is it that you’re choosing to see?
Krishna Washburn
A good audio describer can help everyone in the audience truly understand the magic of what’s happening? So that way, everybody’s mirror neurons turn on. [The static drone music ends / a AOL dial-up internet sound begins] and everybody starts to feel it too.
Alejandra Ospina
Your arms open wide. You’re an airplane, you’re my airplane.
Krishna Washburn
No, I could be an airplane if you want me to.
Alejandra Ospina
You remind me of a pelican. Not a pelican, maybe a pelican.
Krishna Washburn
I think you mean like a, a heron.
Alejandra Ospina
That’s what I mean.
Krishna Washburn
I think that it’s a very unique situation to be in to have disabled people give to you. Because I think the dominant cultural narrative is that disabled people are just a suck of time and energy, and cannot really reciprocate. [AOL dial-up internet music ends]
iele paloumpis
the myth of independence. It’s an ableist function of our, of our society. The reality of it is that we are all deeply interconnected and interdependent. Our being together inherently creates a relationship. It creates all kinds of potential for power dynamics. It creates all kinds of potential for collective care.
[Atmospheric music begins]
Krishna Washburn
[Deep audible breathing]
Alejandra Ospina
What is this shape? Tell me about it.
Krishna Washburn
I push in so far that it makes my ribcage change the way it relates to my skin of my back. And it makes my back curve. And I can collect all kinds of energy in there. And all of a sudden, whenever I want it, I can let it shoot out my arm.
Alejandra Ospina
And that’s why your arms burst out like that.
Krishna Washburn
[Birds chirp in the background]
We all have the capacity to feel other people’s movements. If you actually understand what the dancer is doing, you’re going to come away with all of your nerves tingling. You’re going to feel what it’s like to jump three feet in the air. If an audio describer can do that, and help you tap into that for yourself. I don’t care if you can see or not see, everyone is going to get to cry and gasp in joy at the same time, together.
[Atmospheric music ends]